Covid-19 Early Treatments
Group for people looking for treatment or prevention for Covid-19 and the corona virus. What are you experiences with the available treatment options? We want to hear them so that others may learn. To Join this group – Login First.
Nasal and Oral Cleansing so important
- MemberOctober 7, 2021 at 8:16 pm
Nasal and Oral Cleansing with low dose Povidone Iodine is recommended by the FLCCC. Here they presented a range of products such as Betadine and Immunemist.com or one can dilute the 10% povidone iodine with nasal saline in a 1:9 ratio of Povidone Iodine solution to saline. But ready to use can be purchased at http://www.immunemist.com
- MemberOctober 10, 2021 at 7:43 pm
I was wondering if people doing regular throat gargles have started to have cold hand or cold feet symptoms? I have read some articles on nitric oxide’s role in blood vessel health, and noted warnings on using anti-bacterial mouthwash. I do not know if this is a credible warning or not!
- MemberOctober 10, 2021 at 9:23 pm
Hello Sq James, I have been in healthcare for 37yrs, I have never seen this reported or studied. I think if you have seen reports on this its non scientific people kidding around or reporting incorrectly, There is absolutely no reason an antibacterial mouthwash would change nitric oxide levels. And cold hands and feet are not related to NO levels. If anything it would be facial flushing. Best regards
- MemberOctober 11, 2021 at 8:22 am
Oral Microbiome and Nitric Oxide: the Missing Link in the Management of Blood Pressure
- MemberOctober 11, 2021 at 9:06 am
Thank you.. the major source of NO in the upper respiratory tract is from the nasal epitheial cells not from the microbiome. In the blood vessel wall, NO is produced mainly from l-arginine by the enzyme endothelial nitric oxide synthase (eNOS) but it can also be released non-enzymatically from S-nitrosothiols or from nitrate/nitrite. This is not connected to the oral or nasal cavity.. Having a good supply of L=arginine would be important for NO production.
- MemberJanuary 10, 2022 at 7:01 pm
Considering your experience in NO research I’m curious if you have a preference for L-citrulline vs L-arginine to increase NO production and promote endothelial health?
- MemberOctober 11, 2021 at 9:07 am
studied the oral systemic health link for 25 years.. its very complex and likely not so simple.
- MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 6:18 pm
Dear Square-James, I had seen a video crime From Greger from nutritonfacts.org on this very topic, which sparked further research for me. Essentially, the bacteria in our saliva transforms the nitrates from green leafy veg to nitrites. This reduction to nitrite by oral commensal bacteria are all necessary steps for further nitric oxide generation. Thus, anti bacterial mouthwashes, but not toothpastes, have been shown to disrupt this process. About 9 years ago I followed the science down the rabbit hole and have avoided all of these products ever since; but, recently began using 1% povidone iodine due to the risk reduction it imparts with Sars-Cov2, not to mention flu/common cold etc.
Here’s the original video (you can use hours source studies to continue the journey):
- MemberOctober 18, 2021 at 4:52 pm
I tried a few drops of Povidone-iodine in a nasal rinse. I don’t like that it contains Nonoxynol-9. All of the brands seem to contain it. I bought a silver hydrosol solution packaged in a nasal sprayer which I am using instead. Any opinions?
- MemberOctober 21, 2021 at 1:39 am
There are some Povidone-Iodine products that have C12-13 Pareth-9 instead of Nonoxynol-9. One example is the Solimo Povidone-Iodine Solution 10% First Aid Antiseptic 8 Oz. Be sure to dilute to the right concentration between 1% to 0.6%. Diluted solution should be discarded the next day because of reduced shelf life.
- MemberOctober 21, 2021 at 5:47 pm
There is a packaging difference between Veterinarian use, Professional use and retail use.
vet has 0.5% available iodine
professional and retail have 1.0% available iodine
Povidone Iodine has been well documented as one of the most effective of all antimicrobials available. Hospitals and medical facilities worldwide use povidone-iodine (Betadine) as a standard of care in infection control, even though it contains very small amounts of Iodine. Betadine (PVP-1) has been in commercial use since 1955 and is on the World Health Organization’s list of essential medicines.
PVP-1 contains 31,600 ppm of iodine compounds, but it is only I2 that is the biocidal species responsible for its antimicrobial activity. I2 occurs in trace quantities of 2–3 ppm, but even at these levels, it is considered the best at destroying bacteria, viruses, and fungi. All the other aspects of PVP-1 only contribute to its toxicity, staining, and unpleasant taste.
For more than 50 years, PVP-1 has been used as an essential medicine in hospitals and health-care clinics as a scrub for surgeries as well as hand disinfection for surgical personnel. It has been an integral antiseptic as a wound disinfectant.
PVP-1 has also been shown to be highly effective in the treatment of periodontal disease. Jørgen Slots wrote that it is a valuable antiseptic in its treatment of periodontal disease and a variety of other oral infections. His research has shown that it kills all periodontal pathogens in vitro within 15–20 seconds. Slots also says that it exhibits a wide viricidal spectrum, covering both nonenveloped and enveloped viruses, including the periodontopathogenic cytomegalovirus.
Fortunately, there is a new generation of recently patented iodine-based antiseptics that overcome the negative side effects of PVP-1. A new aqueous formulation with 100 times more I2 than contained in PVP-1 is now available, and the nonbiocidal content has been reduced from 31,600 ppm to a few hundred ppm. This new formulation increases its effectiveness, safety, and shelf life, while also reducing staining, toxicity, bad taste, and potential irritancy. It is now available in mouthrinses, concentrates, nasal sprays, and hand sanitizers offered by IoTech International.
Source: IoTech International, Boca Raton, Florida
- MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 9:53 am
Easy by stabilizing the surface tension of the mucosa:
Ions like Ca2+ and others found in (dead) sea salt. Or add CaCl2. Any Film building spray, Carragelose, Xylitol, Glycerine, Hypromellosis, … (lin seed slime, even found snail slime is used in cosmetics, well, not my choice; I just want to point out: it is NOT a question of money, very important, you can have nasal care nearly for free DIY 😉
Superspreadig is the problem of low surface tension. This results in 5-10% of super-seeder Super-Aerosol-Exhalers to contribute 90% of R-Value. Probably they are much more susceptable as well.
Where are the millions of research money to stop this? Well, one group has done it:
“A New Natural Defense Against Airborne Pathogens”
MEASURE it :
Grab an air quality monitor containing a size binning pm2.5 fine dust sensor, and breath in it.
Normal: 50-300 aerosols/Litre. Super-Aerosole-Exhaling: 20,000-30,000 Aerosols/Litre
Do this with 100 people. Tell all that a high aerosol count means they would personally and in the long term benefit from treating this, symptomatically or in the long rung, by measuring from time to time, finding causative cures (belly improvement, immune system de-inflammation, whatever helps…)
The sensor thereby is help in finding long-acting remedies and also causative cures.
We got a sample from electronic distributor to school to test this called SPS30 by sensirion.ch .
Hooked it up some wlan esp microcontroller and added a display. Now we can use it mobile and have the possibility to log it.
2nd: FOR KIDS:
Please add baking soda to the list of antivirals, as it is very mild and for me the choice to let small kids gargle before they can play without masks. 0.5% is enough, further enhancing concentration does not improve effect. Told me author of:
“Rapid initiation of nasal saline irrigation to reduce morbidity and mortality in COVID+ outpatients: a randomized clinical trial compared to a national dataset” (PVP-I vs NaHCO3)
(We still add DIY 0.13% iota-carrageenan sprays, did a combo and added 13% xylitol and 10-15dr/10ml grapeseed extract in GLYCERINE. You can form a whole therapeutic regime from inorganic antivirals, antiviral film builders, anti-allergic azelastine or CPM)
Happy new year!
Make your neighbor healthy !
(Love will rescue us, not fight or division.)
- MemberJanuary 4, 2022 at 10:54 am
I filled my neti pot with 2 tsp of Betadine and 6 ounces of water according to Dr McCullough’s instructions. It caused a runny nose which was manageable but also resulted in congestion that later required me to use a decongestant nasal spray so I could sleep. The next day I used half of the Betadine in the same amount of water and did an 8 second rinse in each nostril. My nose felt completely clear for a couple of hours until the seemingly rebound congestion happened again. More saline rinses (I do them regularly anyway) and I have not used the betadine again. Could I be sensitive to betadine? Is this a common side effect?
FYI I have been exposed to Covid inside my house for the past 2.5 weeks (husband had it first and then my younger daughter who is on her 7th day) and I remain healthy.
- MemberJanuary 5, 2022 at 2:26 pm
- MemberJanuary 6, 2022 at 8:08 pm
I bought a 1 liter 10.4% povidone iodine bottle from the biggest pharma company (reputable) in Indonesia. I cut it to 1% for both nasal spray and gargle solution. After using for about a week, the slight burning in the nasal passages kept giving me runny nose etc. After reading much research, I decided to cut it further to 0.75% with a little relief. The bottle on the left is 190 ml of 1% betadine povidone iodine and costs 3.10 USD; the 1 liter 10.4% povidone iodine bottle on the right costs 5.80 USD and can produce 11 liters of gargle solution.
- MemberJanuary 10, 2022 at 5:40 pm
Can you please try if it feels the same (congestion) with the base solution you used (water or salt water?) without povidone-iodine?
Is it better if you add 1/4 TS salt (dead) sea salt eg.? 0.4% is neutral for mucosa. More is astringent. (got the right vocabulary now;)
Please read the paper of Prof. Schwarz, as she uses only 0.1%. PVP is very rich.
I would advise to leave the nose alone if no symptoms and not vulnerable / smoking, or only use biome caring or neutral or very mild things (like the baking soda and salt 0.5% each).
On symptoms, this is different:).
Are you reacting if swallowing tablets with PVP (Fenestil etc.) ?
(I will try to contact our hygiene professor and ask for advice on how to detect, assort and handle intolerances. Perhaps he can tell from his clinic everyday life, where ca 60k people have gargled/yr. He told me he even measured TSH for many, and never had a change. But I did not ask him for the rate of intolerances, but this is important, as it is the main counter argument of big vax industry wanting us to do NOTHING; if it is much more rare than any to say milk or wheat, than it is acceptable; perhaps he can contribute a protocol on how to first test it it handle the “get acquainted”…;)
Can you as an alternative get hold of 800ppm HClO or ask pharmacist or your dentist to get this for you, or stronger, so you can dilute? Shall be very pure and of defined concentration so you can just calculate the dilution. Would use purified water if you want to store it diluted a while, perhaps add a few drops of citric acid to get back to the original pH, shall be around or a bit below 6, not higher, if you want to store it a bit. Add salt to the store of a few days only.
Observe the inhalation option, I tried with good success, as HClO is not “viscous” like PVP, so my membrane inhaler (Omron U100) is happily vaporizing, where PVP-I only trickles out in a very tired “mine fume plume” even when diluted quite thin. Will try to ask the company if this is normal. Changing the mesh sieve (quite expensive, 25€ or so spare pack whole head) did not impprove much. I still think a silent brushless efficient battery driven air compressor pr Pari boy inhaling heads (best you can get) would be a great thing. Just will measure the properties of the original compressor one day, air flow and pressure. Have to build a heat wire anemometer and re-use a sensor from an electronic blood pressure device I took apart with the kids. And I will ask the RC model hobbyists, to have it cheap and portable.
- MemberJanuary 7, 2022 at 8:25 am
Steve Kirsch recommends using a Netti Pot a couple of times a day to irrigate nasal passages and clear out any virus breeding. If this works, it may be healthier than using the povidone and gargling with an antiseptic mouthwash. I do use the ImmuneMist; however, because I am hypothyroid, it concerns me that I may be getting too much iodine in my system.
- MemberJanuary 10, 2022 at 6:16 pm
How often do you prevent with inorganic disinfectants?
How often is necessary? For what effect? On viruses? On biome?
I more sharply see for me 3x/WEEK shall be enough, to keep the number of biome little friends high during the day where we meet people and are in training mode, of course depending on our vulnerability.
When we didn’t want to be infected, before visiting granny, we combined.
E.g: Azelastine, then carrageenan.
3x/Week gargle inorganic antiseptics.
Testet out 3ml 3% PVP, 10ml 800 ppm HClO or 10+10ml 300ppm ClO2.
Right now use 300ppm ClO2, as it is conveniently sitting in the fridge. Family members have all 3 overlapping weekly timers and sometimes meet in the evening before the fridge. Just to talk from helping the frail plant of discipline for elderly kids, and myself ;))
My youngest one disdains the chlorine smell, and I am content if he sprays our combo spray carrageenan/xylitol and does gargle when meeting with class mates. Even this is too much of reduction to train his immune system adequately.
This is nagging me: how to steer (for a given vulnerability, but we do not measure!) the optimum ride of the infection? There is an optimum regarding build-up of long sutainable and sterilizing immunity, while keeping costs and chance to “de-mask” low.
Perhaps the only thing I can try for now is to be consistent and do not change fast. Need a discipline reactor…
Well, omicron will teach us what is too much and what too little. Live sensors like done by MIT (in the buttom of Takeda, geve away their smart phone KI microphone 100% asymptomatic detection for shredding) eg. Prof. Tabib-Azar or a trained dog would be cool. Trained not only on virus production (quasi live test) but also on prevalance of vulnerability to suffer from severe case or post-covid, as could be trained by freezing scent probes people report back after being through their illness.
(One man I talked about CLO2 by chance on this topic told me he uses it for several years and is using it in rather high concentration for 2x per week. He talked of 1500ppm. I then added 10ml+10ml, so use new solution when changing from mouth to throat to prevent early wearing-out.)
Nasal sprays to nose and throat, breathing in (a bit), greatly enhancing efficacy.
If in need (symptoms on a travel) and no inhaler is near, azelastine (alternatively CPM, Chlorpheniramine Maleate) and Carragelose sprays can be outright drawn in with a deep breath, so you have your “mini inhaler” for outdoors, even if drops are a bit big, it distributes.
- MemberJanuary 10, 2022 at 6:54 pm
Can anyone state the PVP-I concentration of ImmuneMist? They like secrets?
At least they state the ingredients, that I do not like. Many stay-on things. This enhances effect, but also swallowing, but you should spit it out !
Do your own clear running mist. Spray it several time in a minute, to emulate gargling, but SPIT IT OUT: Ingredients shall read PVP-I, NaOH, salt if you like.
Glycerine is cool, but could be used sperately. No stay on. No swallowing.
(Especially not for low-on-jodine patients, they could at least write this, even if the amounts of iodine are terribly low proably. My inhalation is another dimension there. But I do not know, as they do not incline to tell.)
Polysorbate shall be replaced world-wide by sunflower phospholipids (or glycerine or marinomed.at ‘s MarinoSolv from chest nut trees, actually the rare example of saponines being anti-inflammatory). I found no more biome friendly (micellar) solving agents. Polysorbate even enhances rate of belly inflammation in 2nd generation in mice. It distorts the biome, like many emulsifiers and solvants do, and according to Steve Kirsch even ivermectine.
We have to be very wary when applying for prolonged times. Steve Kirsch said once a bit sloppy: you may altogether not prevent and just treat it early with determination. I think he feels like Geert van den Bossche has explained very pastically, like a virgin, that omicron is something special, I do not care if designed or accidentally released or in warp-speed evolutionized (un-)naturally, it is too good a vaccine and it will be fought by adapted vaccines, and then it will be gone. I will dive into biology a bit. How-to-freeze to do a nasal spray where I can remind my immune system, just a little bit, that the crap is still around. Lets concentrate on the papers from Dresden and the cubans, mambisa, doing nasal spray vaccines, or inhalative vaccines like for measles (mostly live vaccines).
Rent a house at the see, get positive feelings in nose, test, and have your vacation. Afterwards one should have updated immunity. If not life virus, one has to spray with a booster. Perhaps we find another bark of a tree that is suitable. What do your kids use for itching powder (chilenian soap tree contains irritating saponines. Used by the kids just for this purpose there. It is patented to Novavax matrix M1, the adjuvant that is bio-degradable and should replace all other adjuvans crap on this planet causing so much harm to immune systems, I feel partly by accumulating up. Not only monocytes, but directly deposits of adjuvans (Al based Y. Shoenfeld has proofed this. Search for AI on AL salts adjuvans: ASIA. And read his Time Musings.)
- MemberJanuary 9, 2022 at 7:21 am
PLEASE consider using inorganic disinfectants in rather rich concentrations, but only 3x / WEEK prophylactically.
The Protocol by Prof. Zastrow uses 0,75ml 10% plus 2ml water, 40secs move in mouth, 40 secs gargle, spit out well. If you want to be thorough, you can of course also do a nasal rinse, but:
– keep concentration low: 0.1%.
– add (dead) sea salt to 0.4…0.9% concentration.
<font face=”inherit”>If you ask yourself if iodine is causing </font>congestion<font face=”inherit”>, try it without: only the base, water in your case, if I understood. Perhaps water also causes a congestion, as it is not isotonic (for mucosa, isotonic is 0,4%, not 0,9% as in blood which is already a soft adstringant for mucosal use).</font>
<font face=”inherit”>Inorganic antiseptics are Biome-FRIENDLY:</font>
(When you use inorganic disinfectants before sleeping, biome will recover totally and “straight”, undistorted, as only inorganic disinfectants do not PREFER any species, and do not have a single resistance. So when biome is decimated, this is not causing harm if it has time to re-grow. It does so unaltered if no “preferences” are there. This is why heavy users of organic disinfectants from mouth rinse solutions sometimes suffer from inflammation, which is the consequence of a distorted biome. And you HAVE to use organic disinfectants 4-5x/day to have the same effect, as they stay at the surface and can’t diffuse insides the dead mucosal cells comprising the derma.)
EVERYTHING we use on a daily basis multiple times a day shall be pre-biotic (xylitol, glycerine) or at least leave our biome alone (iota-carrageenan, hyalurone, hypromellosis).
I recently read by Steve kirsch he had some biome considerations as well, even for ivermectine.
(We should really support MedinCell in their development of long-lasting ivermectin injections. Regard their safety-report.;)
He even wrote somewhere, as therapy improves, one could also altogether leave out the prevention side and just have all for early therapy ready at hand. Well, this depends on your personal vulnerability guess. Make it a measurement: Vulnerability = “free ace2 in blood AND NO antibodies from any coronavirus”. Please give me the source, I lost it. It was some doctor in a social media context… For me it is: is my immune system easy irritable, do I have Auto-Immune or Mast Cell Activation (suspicion on MCAS: 2 organs independently affected like Allergy + Asthma, or Neurodermitis + IBS, etc.) prevalence in me or relatives? THEN one should bring inflammation tendency down by doing LHCS treatment as indicated by Steve Kirsch in skirsch.io under How to Treat… Because LHCS ist Post-Covid, it can treat Post-WHATEVER. Most often it is the same principle: Immune system is “filling the bucket” of activated, H1-mode, monocytes and these meander through the system, gnawing at the endothelial and what not. Other principle is viral residues that enforce these monocytes to spring to action to control the viral residues. Theories are there that NO virus is really leaving for good. So we accumulate a depot of “sleeper” cells containing viruses. The more advanced AIDS therapies do activate these sleeper cells while providing immune stimulating and directly antiviral medication, so you can really get rid of sleepers. ALL working “spring cures” including vegetable broth or intermittent fasting cures do have this effect, TCM, Ayurveda, whatever.
I have a booklet called artemisia annua – herb of the gods bei Simonsohn, which states that by essence rich breedings of artemisia annua, whole poor countries can self-sustainable cure aids and malaria and whatnot.
I read that you can combine it by “boosting” artemisia with a herb that delays decomposition in liver. Pharmacy of god. Principle sounds familiar, eh? (Pfi* 😉
- MemberJanuary 9, 2022 at 8:16 am
In doing more search on iodine and SARS-CoV-2, I came across this site that primarily sells to dentists.
Their product contains molecular iodine, which they say is superior to povidone. There is also a study and abstract that they mention if you want to pursue it further.
- MemberJanuary 10, 2022 at 8:38 pm
Immunemist is 1% povidone iodine in nasal and oral sprays.
- MemberJanuary 23, 2022 at 2:46 am
You can not clear out a virus. Not that I encountered it. You can only hinder it from spreading exponentially. It will reproduce in a slightly growing spot from tip of a needle to some millimeters, even if you use the most diffusing antiseptic, ClO2, until your immune system clears it out, so you have to bring yourself through the time prohibiting exponential growth into the lungs and infectious pressure and shedding into the blood stream from there.
(We managed to get rid of summer flu in 2 days by combining azelastine and carragelose sprays (also inhaled), but we new the virus already in part.)
Safety Profile is a function of Efficacy over Side effects.
From this point of view, the best antiseptic for gargling is ClO2, then HClO then I2 then PVP-I.
We use ClO2 (DIY, cheap) or PVP-I (widely available, rather cheap).
PVP-I has its advantages: because it is providing a nearly undepletable supply of I radicals at the surface of the mucosa. Compare 30,000ppm to 300 or 800ppm. But at one time, only some “I” are hopping out of the PVP mesh. So I2 with 100ppm is stronger than 100,000 ppm PVP-I.
And because Prof. Zastrow has 4000 people gargling for the whole pandemic, and since people in clinics are changing rapidly, it may well be 20-30k different people gargled, I have not asked him; so yes, clinical experience is a major point. From this treasure of experience I can report that he had many thyroid patients, and never observed any change in the thyroid parameters like THC while gargling. But please do spit out “2 times” for them and avoid macrogol and other stay-on viscous helper add-ons. Makes things complicated, also from tolerability.
For inhalation this is different: you have to tolerate some iodine intake for this to inhale with PVP-I. So please buy a supply of HClO (if you want to store it longer than Exp. date put it in fridge) that can be diluted to 200ppm in Salt Water for inhalation for the time you need it to be quickly available.
It is a matter of weighing and comparing different protocols.
This is what normally trials are there for. But in these times imagine who will invest money in this, and who will try to sabotage the preparation, the trial experiment, the writing up and the publication.
And do his own trial, with totally different output, as ordered.
I can just express that for a reasonable low risk profile, it is much more beneficial to use a protocol that has to be used only 3 times a WEEK, since I observed that in sloppy low risk times, we loose our mindfulness and start to forget some applications, and this is where sh* – I mean – the inconvenient things happens. By this we contracted summer flu and 2 more colds, which was good, because our immune system was starving to get something to do, on the other hand.
So I weigh another sentence of Steve kirsch in my head:
“You could also skip the prevention and do early treatment, altogether…” (Hope it is correct;) See How to treat.
And some (the ones not prevalent to Auto-Immune or Mast Cell Activation Syndrome) may even want a good ride of the omicron wave, to gain live-long robust immunity to many variants (to come). This can only be taken, when you search for your vulnerability status := free ACE2 AND NO antibodies against ANY coronavirus.
Any relatives suffering from allergies and over-reaction in any other organ may deem you vulnerable.
IF NOT, you may just keep the immune system calm in the end, I think this is the George Fareed Protocol.
Right now, a paper came out discussing the oral / i.v. use of chlorine dioxide ClO2 “inner use”. I suspect it somehow manages to get monocytes in inflamed H1 state (bearing a spike in their Tommy, whole day searching for the target in cells, gnawing at the capillaries) away from it or do apoptosis. See:
ClO2 The chlorine dioxide controversy: A deadly poison or a cure for COVID-19? – Mitchell Brent Liester Treatment
I have a friend owning the Kalcker book, so I will have a look at it.
Another piece of the puzzle came to me now: I searched for pure phospholipides to solve ivermectin and cur cumine etc., and found instead this: Compare the English with the German variant:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phosphatidylserine: nothing found with macrophages.
Wiki DE on Phosphatidylserin to EN by gTrans:
cell communication: PS is kept active in the inner (cytosolic) monolayer of the cell membrane by the enzyme flippase . However, if the cell undergoes apoptosis, it is also found in the outer monolayer. The enzyme scramblase catalyzes the rapid exchange between both sides of the cell membrane. If PS is found in the outer (extracellular) monolayer, it serves as a signal to macrophages for phagocytosis . 
The question I have: can I wrap Phosphatidylserin in a phospholipide nano shell carrying aptamers that target charged monocytes bearing a spike in their belly: how could I avoid targeting all of them?
Or can I combine a combined antiviral therapy with this targeting the monocytes? We near the Makrophage Repolarisation Therapy done by the “pros” (Bruce Patterson, see Sayeed Mobeen in yt: Spike in immune Cells.
Would just enhancing the available Phosphatidylserin have some positive effect?
See you !