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  • With Biden new vaccine mandates today

     Marcella updated 1 day, 20 hours ago 10 Members · 15 Posts
  • Fluoxetine

    September 9, 2021 at 4:32 pm

    The reason I don’t trust the government is they lie by omission. If I am forced to get vaccinated to keep my job and house I would like to know which of the three vaccines has the best safety record. Not the best efficacy, the best safety record. That safety record data exists somewhere. The government does not release it because they know many would choose the one with the best safety record. So the government remains silent on one of the most important data points of the pandemic. Does anyone have any source that might provide insight to the vaccine with the best safety record? I trust almost no “mainstream” source and would almost prefer someone highly educated that is anti-vax to opine on “if you must get a vax I would suggest this one” as the least of the three evils. All three have their horror stories, but I would think one might have less horror stories?

  • skepticsembracefailure

    September 9, 2021 at 6:20 pm

    We do know Moderna is worse than
    Pfizer based on VAERS death rates and the 3.33x higher vaccine dose with
    Moderna than Pfizer. Most interestingly, you can see that the US has all but
    curtailed administration of Moderna since around May based on this graph here
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccine-doses-by-manufacturer?country=~USA. To not mince words, it seems they realized it’s killing people significantly more than Pfizer. So I think it’s very easy to rule out Moderna.

    As for J&J vs. Pfizer, it’s pretty hard to say for sure. Pfizer is the only company to release 6 month data from their clinical trial, and these data proved the Pfizer vaccine slightly INCREASES the overall risk of death (15 deaths vaccine vs. 14 deaths placebo), rather than saving lives. See Pfizer’s preprint article here https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.28.21261159v1. In terms of J&J, you have to remember there is a major widespread bias against that vaccine, for many possible reasons. So last time I checked, the VAERS death rate for J&J was somewhat worse than Pfizer (but better than Moderna), although certainly there is a bias towards more VAERS reporting for J&J because even doctors and other health care workers may be genuinely suspicious of it since they’ve heard many negative things in the media etc. AstraZeneca is a similar vaccine to J&J, but it seems to have a worse safety record than J&J, and some European data comparing Pfizer and AstraZeneca deaths look equivocal (not clear which is worse). So it may well be that J&J is safer than Pfizer (and certainly Moderna), but we don’t have adequate data right now, J&J’s 6-month clinical trial data should give us an answer.

    I’m sure it varies by employer, but I wonder what the typical rules are about getting foreign WHO-approved vaccines like Sinopharm or Sinovac (if you were willing to travel to Mexico or somewhere else for that), as all data currently available show that these vaccines DO NOT cause excess deaths unlike the mRNA vaccines. Covaxin has shown that it actually saves lives overall in its clinical trial (5 deaths vaccine vs. 10 deaths placebo), but it’s not WHO-approved yet, I heard it might be soon. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.06.30.21259439v1

    Most of all why not wait as long as you can, see how things pan out, and then only get the vaccine once it is crystal clear that you will be fired otherwise.

  • Fluoxetine

    September 10, 2021 at 12:42 pm

    Thank you so much skepticsembracefailure for the informative information. I am in no hurry to get the vaccine, just trying to plan ahead because it appears with each passing week the vaccine-mandaters are tightening the vise.

    • TLF1776

      September 11, 2021 at 9:36 am

      Fluoxetine, I am in a similar situation as you. I am resigned to the following: If I must be fired for refusing to engage in a vaccine mandate, so be it. If/when that happens, I am going to try to do remote work-from-home as an independent contractor (form my own LLC) to earn some income for a while and ride this out. It probably won’t be much money, especially at first, but I can get by. Of course I don’t know what will happen in the future, but I have to have hope that more safety data will eventually come out in some shape or form. Maybe within 6 months to a year? It does not make sense to gamble with my long term health for a short term job. My spouse is very encouraging about this, which is helpful. I wish the best for you in whatever decision you make.

  • mhadfield

    September 11, 2021 at 1:53 pm

    So sad that people even have to make a calculation like this – their health concerns OR their job. What bunch of intrusive government BS.

  • Square-James

    September 12, 2021 at 12:32 pm

    The times of OSHA killing workers have unfortunately arrived.

    Biden is making OSHA doing the dirty work of requiring workers to take risky vaccines. I think the most straightforward case is in workers who had adverse reaction to a first dose of Moderna or Pfizer vaccine, and subsequently declined to take a second dose. Now they would be subject to continuously intrusive and costly tests, or lose their jobs.

    I doubt if the government would stay satisfied with two jabs. Eventually the bar would be raised to three jabs or even more to fill the coffers of the Big Pharma. Sad!

    • KatieZ2

      September 13, 2021 at 8:51 am

      That is the most straightforward case and I am in it – declined my second due to significant side effects, including heart involvement. Now I have to test to keep my job. I have had my antibodies tested and they are high and continuing from the jab, but none of that matters. It’s abusive to say the least. Bizarre.

      • Fluoxetine

        September 13, 2021 at 10:31 am

        Katie…which jab caused your significant side effects?

    • Fluoxetine

      September 13, 2021 at 9:08 am

      Square-James once again the government is getting business to do their dirty work for them. The government does not really collect taxes, business removes the tax money from employees paychecks for the government.

      And here the government can’t be sued for vaccine deaths and injuries. The government made sure big pharma can’t get sued for vaccine deaths and injuries. So if a company mandates their employees must be vaccinated and the employee dies or is injured by the vaccine who will the employee’s family sue? Of course they will sue the company mandating the vaccine that is not protected from liability.

    • Marcella

      September 16, 2021 at 2:23 pm

      ‘…the bar would be raised to three jabs or even more..’

      Given Anthony Fauci’s warnings that Americans could be looking at boosters ‘indefinitely’, I would wager your ‘even more’ to be prescient.

  • PJMiller

    September 13, 2021 at 1:43 pm

    There appears to be a big contradiction in the position of the “Vaccine Uber Alles” mob – who increasingly remind me of the “Pod People” in the old 1950’s science fiction film, “Invasion of the Body Snatchers”.

    These COVID vaccine pushers are absolutely sure that the vaccines they took are both effective AND safe. Unless the meaning of “vaccine” has been redefined from what it meant when I was growing up, the vaccinated should be immune to infection, incapable of transmitting the disease, and be prevented from becoming sick, hospitalized or dying. Nor should the vaccinated suffer any serious or long lasting harm from the vaccine or vaccination process itself.

    Why then, would the vaccinated even care about others who have chosen – for any reason at all – to refuse these vaccines?

    By their own position, the vaccinated should be able to walk through a COVID ICU, kiss everyone on the mouth, then walk out the other door without ever worrying about becoming infected, contagious, ill – or worse. The vaccinated are immune to infection. They will not transmit the virus. They will not get sick. They will not die. Again, that is their position, not mine. It didn’t take me very long to come to the conclusion that these current COVID vaccines were not very effective or safe. And no, I am NOT “anti-vax” (but I respect their choices).

    It seems to me that the vaccinated are attempting to force an invasive medical procedure on others against their will, without giving the legal right to informed consent – while also saying, at the same time, that the vaccines are both effective and safe and that they are NOT effective or safe. WTF?

    Do they now think they made a bad choice in getting vaccinated? Are they having second thoughts about it? Are they really saying “I realize now that I made a mistake by getting vaccinated but now I’m going to force YOU to make the same mistake that I did!”?

    “Herd immunity” my ass! We really need a vaccine to prevent “herd mentality”! And maybe we could also start teaching some critical thinking skills.

    Maybe we could also do something about the corporate capture of our government and our lives? Big Pharma is not the only problem here.

  • KatieZ2

    September 13, 2021 at 2:18 pm

    How do I make a post? I can only seem to reply.

    Do we know if any politicians are going after these mandates? They made no logical sense.

  • ObjectiveAce

    September 13, 2021 at 10:06 pm

    Has anyone had any success medical exemptions? I’ve had heart problems in the past (possibly myocarditis) and figure its at least worth broaching with my cardiologist. Not sure what to expect though

  • nchaison

    September 15, 2021 at 10:54 am

    I was going to chime in about adverse events caused because of the jabs. Death is only one of them. Do you know how to go on VAERS to check all of that out?

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